Nobody is lured by anyone through initial criticism and abuse. If a psychopath undermined your self-confidence on the first date, you’d quickly dispatch him on his way. Relationships with psychopaths are about utility and power. The psychopath will use you for whatever purpose he wants–sex, money, a mask of normalcy–and keep you in your place by getting you to focus on your weaknesses and pouncing on your insecurities. However, no relationship with a psychopath starts that way. On the contrary, once they set their eyes on you as their main target (their “prize”), psychopaths typically engage in whirlwind romances. They can’t get enough of you. They want to see you and make love to you all the time. They flatter you constantly. They tell you that no woman they’ve ever been with is as smart, as beautiful, as classy as you are. You are the one true love of their lives. Their only love. Victims tend to eat the flattery up, since after all, who doesn’t like to be told such positive and beautiful things? They don’t ask themselves a common sense question: Why is this guy flattering me so much?
This is, indeed, the first question you should ask yourself if you’re being “love bombed,” as they say, by anyone. How many healthy individuals do that? And what makes you so special that out of all the people in the world you turn out to be the most beautiful, brilliant and exciting of all? Could it be that this man has an ulterior motive? Could it be that he told each one of his main targets the same lines? And if so, why? To show you how absurd love bombing is and why you should display great caution when you encounter it, just consider the following analogous examples. We tell our children not to approach strangers who try to lure them with nice words and candy. Those individuals are probably social predators, pedophiles. But why do grown women accept such flattery without raising an eyebrow? Shouldn’t the advice they offer their children also apply to them?
To offer a second common example: in the seventies a lot of women hitchhiked. They didn’t necessarily ask themselves why is this stranger being so nice and giving me a free ride? Most of the time they were safe; a lot of the time, they weren’t. Some got picked up by social predators–rapists and even murderers–whose “niceness” was only a lure. There is a pattern emerging here. Most normal people don’t love bomb. They do not engage in over-the-top flattery; they do not make promises of eternal love right off the bat; they don’t call you the love of their lives without even knowing you. These are patterns of behavior that should be suspicious because they are very common lures for predators.
Psychopaths commonly engage in love bombing as their hook, to sink their claws into their victims. The flattery, declarations of love and romantic encounters bond and attract the victims to them. This process is not reciprocal. Since psychopaths attach to others without emotionally bonding to them, they only bond the target, not the predator. Such techniques pump up the victim’s confidence and get her addicted to the supply: of flattery, of romantic words and gestures, or constant displays of “affection” and love making. But only one person–the victim–is actually making love. The other one–the predator–is conquering her, getting her to depend upon his presence and approval, so that he can later tear her apart. That is a psychopath’s main goal: to exercise control over his targets and ultimately harm them. The psychopathic bond is, as Sandra Brown aptly puts it, “a relationship of inevitable harm.”
When victims are still in the honeymoon phase of the psychopathic bond they rarely believe that the person who appears to woe and romance them so much, the one who claims to adore them, intends to use, control and ultimately destroy them. But as the relationship with a psychopath unfolds, this underlying goal becomes more obvious. He starts to get you to focus on your weaknesses. He starts to tell you the criticisms leveled against you by other people (supposedly) so that you focus on those issues. Initially the criticisms don’t come from him (supposedly). They come from your colleague or your friends or his family members. Then, slowly, they start coming from him. Maybe you should exercise more. Or lose some weight. Or you don’t wear the right kind of makeup. Or professionally you’re not successful enough. Or you’re no longer as sexually exciting to him. Bit by bit, criticism by criticism, the psychopath undermines your self-worth. This process may happen in a few months or may be painfully slow and gradual, a matter of years. Either way, it’s highly effective. You are already used to his flattery and validation. What are you doing wrong that you’re no longer getting them? Your sense of who you are and self-confidence begin to slip. You do what you can to regain his approval, or perhaps even his idolatry. His “love”.
The moral of this story? If someone is too positive and flattering and gives you too much attention in the beginning of a relationship, it generally means you’re in for a very bumpy road later on, filled with criticism and manipulation. When somebody starts love bombing you, don’t ask yourself: How in the world did I get so lucky? Ask yourself: What does this guy want from me? In a psychopathic bond, the idealization phase of flattery and wild declarations of love is by far the most dangerous because that’s when a psychopath conditions you in a positive way to pin your self-worth on him. Once you do that, he gradually and steadily conditions you to accept his increasingly negative criticism, to chip away at your identity and self-esteem. This eventually happens in every relationship with a psychopath. You will not be the exception that confirms the rule. Nobody proves to be a psychopath’s “one true love,” no matter how much he flattered them and said he loved them in the beginning.
Claudia Moscovici, psychopathyawareness
Dangerous Liaisons: How to Identify and Escape from Psychopathic Seduction
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Claudia,
Of all the posts you’ve written, that are important, this one can’t be stressed enough so I’m happy to see your article here about it. The luring phase is the most dangerous, absolutely, and the reasons victims stay as well as why it’s so hard to recover once out. This is the psychopaths injection of poison into the heart and mind of his/her victims. Kel
Kel, the luring or honeymoon phase is, indeed, the most dangerous because it’s when the lying and manipulation are most effective and extreme. After the psychopath tires of you or believes he has you under his control, you’re more like a dead prey to him rather than a live one. He loses interest in you; starts showing his true colors; the inconsistencies and lies pop up; his absolute selfishness and vanity show through; the so-called “love” reveals itself to be a complete sham. But if he sank his claws through deep in you through the idealization phase, then you may still be hooked on him despite the more obvious abuse later on. This didn’t happen to me, but I know it happens to a lot of victims who stay with their psychopathic partners way past the idealization phase and because of its continuing pull. Claudia
Claudia,
It’s interesting, because my ex was just targeting his first target that I became aware of (again) while he was out of state and is now newly married. Used the same luring tactics. It repulsed me, not only for what was said and how utterly FAKE it was, but for how OBVIOUS it was. I think education is key in seeing through this sham of luring in the first place. Their narcissism shows through upon the first few meetings if not the first. Kel
Kel, it’s true, it helps to know the signs/red flags of PREDATORY intentions. Your acquaintance would have mistaken his flattery and bantering for mere flirtation and regarded it as completely harmless, or even as very positive, had you not forewarned her and told her more about your ex’s horrible behavior. Socialized psychopaths hook victims with flattery and charm that mask their predatory intentions, at least initially. Claudia
Claudia,
She got it after the three dates last year, remember? If you’re aware of the red flags, like she was, you get the hell out of dodge and fast. It was just “fun” for him to try to see if he could “get” her since he wasnt able to last time. Well, he didn’t this time either. I feel sorry for his wife. Kel
Kel, oh yeah, I remember. But I still think she felt flattered by his attention this time, when you told her more about him. At any rate, those who see the psychopath’s excessive initial flattery and over-the-top attention as a red flag are correct. In some people, this predatory behavior triggers a fight or flight response, which is the right instinct. But for others, it triggers the sense that someone genuinely cares about them and considers them special. These are the ones who become victims of psychopaths, as we all know. Claudia
I was his primary for most of the time we were together. Mine didn’t love bomb – there was no whirlwind romance. He didn’t want or need to see me all the time and we both agreed to give each other space. I thought he was just a guy with a gruff exterior, a man wronged in love and leery of serious relationships. I got some of the flattery, absolutely got good sex. We started seeing each other several times a week but I was never pressured for more. There were warning signs that I ignored, little biting comments and things he said that didn’t make any sense, obvious little white lies. The serious devaluation started about 6 months into the relationship when I began to question things that didn’t add up. He only used the word “love” in strange ways much later in the relationship, like “I have love for you” or even “I had love for you”, like I once had it and lost it. There was never an outright “I love you.”
It was mentioned here to me that psychopaths are lazy and will only do what they absolutely have to do to secure a victim. I was pretty easy for him. Such a trusting soul I was.
Dawn, it’s true that psychopaths will do the minimum necessary to get their victims. How much depends on the psychopath and the victim. But not all psychopaths are “charismatic psychopaths,” who manipulate via their superficial charm. Some are downright antisocial and not that charming, more gruff. It all depends. But the charismatic ones tend to pour on the flattery and charm, initially, especially when they feel they have to work hard to put on a show to get particular victims. Claudia
I forgot to add that he was also very charming with a sweet guileless smile, in between his gruff moments. He was a warm and fuzzy teddy bear at times. He owned a half-a$$ed roofing company and need me very much to help his business soar. He promised financial compensation in return. The money wasn’t important to me. I wanted to see him succeed. So I was in charge of the “business” end of things and I worked my butt off to make him look like a professional. The business never turned into much because he didn’t work very hard to secure new customers. He acted like a complete jerk to more than a couple of them. He also had a nasty habit of not completely finishing something he started until he the customers complained. So when winter came, the business dried up, and he never got it started again. My financial compensation that he insisted I take added up to a whopping $1,000.00 in one year. lol
Thanks Claudia for the clarification. I appreciate it.
Dawn, I should add that even for so-called “charismatic psychopaths” the charisma is a very thin layer that peels off in lengthy intimate contact or if you don’t buy into it anymore and frustrate the psychopath’s wishes. After that thin layer of fake charm peels off, you see the real psychopath: aggressive, nasty, insulting, intimidating, sarcastic and menacing. Since everything any psychopath does and every contact he makes is about how to use, exploit and dominate others, if the fake “niceness” or charm proves ineffectual for some targets, he shows his real self (aggressive, mean and predatory in intent) to them. Claudia
Dawn, mine didn’t do the over the top flattering either. He did flatter me and that never ended. Even the last time we were together. But, his flattery was always accompanied by something hurtful. He uses his “image” of the shy, gentle, sweet, sensual charmer to appear that he’s too shy to be so over the top. But, he’ll want to spend every waking moment with you. If he’s not with you, he’ll be phoning you. He’ll be up front and honest about how lonely he is and just really wants some company. He’ll appear so sweet and unassuming. Much too unassuming to be a suave smooth charming womanizer. His sweet “little boy” cuteness makes you just want to rescue him from his lonliness.
Therefor to keep that image going, he won’t love bomb you in the sense that he’ll tell you he’s in love with you, or that you are the most beautiful thing he’s ever seen. However, what is so insidious about what he does is he’ll always insult and flatter you simultaneously. Such as: “You’re really smart, so I’m surprised you think….” Then he’ll continue telling you how stupid your thinking is. He’d say things like, “You are so tiny, I love that about you.” Then say, “you know who I’d really like to ask out…..so & so.” He’s said to me nearly daily, “I love you, I just wish it were that REALLY SPECIAL kind of love that last a lifetime.” He’d frequently say, “I’d of married you and had 10 kids with you by now, if I’d only have met you 10 years ago.” (I was 10 years older than him). The real clincher was when he’d try to make me feel better about his affairs by saying….”Well, you’re the only one I tell that I love.” He’d literally spend hours telling me specifics about his previous lover, even if it’s the one I l left him upon finding out he’d been seeing her, (we’d be back together of course) Then, he could begin telling me all about their sex life while comparing it to ours. Of course OURS was superior because I was unlike any woman he’d ever been with.These sort of oxymoron statements begin almost immediately when we began dating. In fact I think it started w/in the first week. So Claudia is right, it all depends on who they are. My ex would make fun of suave, charming men that used over the top flattery. His unassuming little boy act works much better for him.
They are all ridiculous stupid dumbasses that think way too much of themselves underneath all the that charm and flattery.
Lisa
Dawn,
I didn’t get the “traditional” love bombing either, but I sure watched him to do it to other women. I was his ultimate poison container. I took way more shit than I should have for a very, very long time. It became a degree of my low self worth vs. his behavior towards the end, but just enough to bail out of the relationshit. They won’t put out any big effort if you’re easy prey. Why should they? On the other hand, I think the charismatic psychopaths (mine was and particularly seductive, just not towards me unless he wanted sex, which was often), love the challenge of women that are strong and otherwise just lonely. Loneliness makes a victim a HUUUUUUUGE target. But the more lonely and the stronger the woman is, the MORE FUN it is to get her and break her down, piece by piece. Personally, seeing how he love bombed women was a bit nauseating, but probably because I saw so much more of his mean side (he never bothered with a mask with me), the luring of other women was so obviously ridiculous and so not whom he was/is. Poor things. Kel
Lisa,
Reading your above post is so familiar to me compared to my ex, reading your story makes me so glad to be out of the relationshit!
Dawn, one other thing that you mentioned about your ex. Wow. Mine use to say the same things: “I have loved you.”. WTF? I’d say “That’s past tense, care to elaborate?” “He’d say, “No, it’s PRESENT tense”. Um, oooooooooooook! He did tell me he loved me. But I knew it was a lie. Just like he was, just like was everything else he said. Kel
Lisa, the behavior you describe makes sense. Psychopaths, be they charming or not, are all about attaining control, being in charge, dominating those around them. Ultimately, any autonomy you retain and independent self-worth you still have, they try to crush it. So even their flattery is meant to cause emotional dependency on them (addiction) and, as you explain so well, is used as an underhanded criticism: a weapon against you. Claudia
Lisa,
One of the things I noticed about mine right away when he was attempting to lure target one into an affair in another state last week, is that he hasnt’ changed at all, but he even skipped formalities, such as how are you and how are the kids, etc. it was STRAIGHT to the seduction. didn’t waste any time. WIth the things he was saying, it dawned on me immediately, not only how damned WEIRD he is, but the NARCISSISM that was SO BLATANT. The grandiosity, the expectation that she would just bow to his short little highness. It was unbelievable! You get a much different perspective when you are able to observe how your ex operates. It’s really incredibly repulsive, as well as obviously disgusting. If you weren’t at all attracted to this man, you’d be sickened by his luring attempts. I just don’t know how his wife doesn’t see it. He just can’t be that good. One of the things that target one told me last week is how COMPLETELY unemotional it all was. NO CONNECTION WITH HIM AT ALL< even with all the luring. Guess he'll have to try to screw some other chick close to home. LOL! Serves his stupid ass right. Can you tell I'm having a bad night? Ugh.
Lisa, your ex sounds so much like mine with his berating and double speak and the way he would do a bait/switch all in the same sentence. I can't believe I wanted to buy into that crap all those years. What a WASTE OF MY TIME and the horrible pain it has caused so many. I hate him. Kel
Kel, my ex would also say things like “I thought you were so smart” whenever I disagreed with anything he said or questioned his implausible stories and lies. Pure manipulation tactics. One thing that Craig Ackley’s book on forensic psychology, which I’ll review soon on the blog, makes so clear is that psychopaths view everyone as fitting into one of two categories: predators like them (only not as good, smart, charming etc as they are) and prey. If you refuse to be prey, then they treat you like a predator, a competitor for the same prey. That’s why my ex masculinizes predation. He believes only men can be predators and women have to be submissive prey, with some little fighting just for fun, to provide a challenge. Therefore to him, any woman who refuses the role of prey and won’t submit to his demands or sees through his lies and bullshit must be a predator. It’s a completely warped worldview, of course, but what can you do? Welcome to the binary and empty emotional landscape of the psychopathic personality. Claudia
Claudia: The love bombing and flattery makes me insert my finger down my throat and gag at this stage; Its not so much that I believed all of it as much as It was just a part of the illusion and fantasy I was living in and wishing it was true. gotta keep the flattery, lies and love bombing coming so the next time I see you it doesnt look like rape; thats pretty much the reality of what is behind their bombing. “If I wasnt in a current relationship you would be with me and I would steal you from your husband” I will never forget when he said that and the first thought that came to my mind was – gee sure we could be together and you would be telling this to someone else behind my back!! What he did and does behind HER back is the SAME treatment I would have received if I were with him so “being in a relationship” has nothing to do with anything – and everything to do with “inevitable harm” for everyone as Sandra Brown states. Dont worry Kelli after they love bomb you we ALL become poisoned by them he just skipped that cycle with you but we are all left cleaning the stage after their act; they have to get ready for the next performance you know a new and different leading lady.
I spend very little time these days in pain over him as I once was; my focus is coming to terms with the unhappiness that lead me to the actor in the first place. Strange however lonely as I still am in my life I am now “love bomb proof” I dont want to be the most sexiest and wonderful person someone has met, I dont want overwhelming flattery because I dont need to be told those things, I dont need to be compared to other women or lovers to make me feel I am of worth and value because I already know I am unique and special in my own way just as everyone is. So as the saying goes “Flattery and love bombing will get you nowhere” I dont need it in order for you to secure my love. Take your pimp act elsewhere. Linda
Linda, notice the predatory intent: “I would steal you from your husband”. My psychopathic ex was primarily interested in me because he could steal me from my husband and destroy my family. That was a game, a challenge. Without such a challenge–in their minds, a rivalry for the same prey with another predator– psychopaths tend to engage only in casual sexual relationships, unless they target you as their main dominance bond. I love your very apt expression: take your “pimp act” elsewhere. Incidentally, that’s what my parents said when I told them about the psychopath and his over-the-top romantic and flattering behavior. At that point, I was still pretty enchanted with it, but they said he acted exactly like a pimp, luring women into sexual addiction to control and destroy them. They didn’t even know that the concept of psychopathy applied to anything except serial killers back then, but their description of his motivation and thinking was entirely accurate. Claudia
Lisa,
I dunno wtf was up with that. More head games, I’m sure. It was sure confusing at the time. It felt like punishment for something I didn’t know I had done.
As an aside–the last few days I’ve found myself working to stay in my own head and not trying to figure out what went on in his. That feels like progress!
I’ve been thinking about your reply Claudia. I’ve come to the conclusion that a lovebombing charismatic psychopath would have repulsed me almost immediately. I would have tagged him as a replica of my father and blown him off. I don’t accept compliments easily as it is and over the top flattery would never have drawn me in.
It was always the strong, mostly silent, independent, macho, manly types that drew me in. He was all that with a tender side. He greatly admired my intellect and the feminista in me appreciated that a great deal. Here was a guy who appreciated brains over beauty!
He is totally the antisocial type you describe. At the end of the day he truly hates people and the social interaction/energy required to maintain any type of relationships with them. If he didn’t so desperately need to dominate us all, he’d be one of those types who sell everything they own and go live in the mountains alone.
Dawn, ultimately the charismatic psychopath who flatters and love bombs and the more antisocial surly psychopath become one and the same once the charismatic psychopath has power over you and his thin layer of manipulative charm and lies is scraped off. They’re one and the same dangerous social predator underneath, driven by a desire for power over others to confirm their sense of superiority and, ultimately, of OMNIPOTENCE. Psychopaths don’t feel just superior to others, they feel omnipotent. They feel like they have the power of life and death over people’s lives through their persona and manipulation. Claudia
Sorry, this is a response to Kelli not Lisa. Doh!
Yep, I get what you’re saying. It’s the same animal – the thin outer shell just looks different.
Claudia,
You’ve mentioned Craig’s book before. It’s going to have to be on my “to read” list. HIs perspective sounds accurate and very interesting. My ex use to say shit like that to me too “You’re a smart girl….” **gag**
Kel
Kel, I’m just about to write its amazon.com review today, and I’ll post it next week on psychopathyawareness as well. It’s as helpful as Sandra Brown’s How to spot a dangerous man, even if it’s from the (different) perspective of criminal profiling. Claudia
Lisa, I got the compliments followed by criticism too. Not always, but sometimes. I got some of the little boy cuteness too.
“You’re a smart girl you figure it out”. Such sarcasm!
“I love your long hair but you shed like a dog all over my house. (Insert sigh of the long suffering) Don’t get it cut because I don’t like women with short hair”
“You’re small and you make me feel big and strong. I don’t think I could be with anyone shorter than you because you’re almost a midget. You know I hate midgets.”
“I respect you because you have kids but you’ve ruined them for life because you don’t discipline them enough.”
My ex made fun of men who were sophisticated, dressed well, spoke eloquently. He thought they were a bunch of pansies.
Dawn, after the initial luring phase, the psychopath’s compliments are usually lined with hidden criticism and abuse, exactly as you describe. His goal is control. He can’t control targets with independently strong self-esteem, so he will try to get you dependent on his approval by these kinds of ambivalent compliments. The victim then aims for his approval, to get more compliments, and yet nothing she does is ever enough, as is obvious in these covert jabs or criticism. Psychopaths have a lifetime of experience in finding people’s weaknesses and playing/preying on them. What they don’t have any experience with is genuine respect for others. So they always underestimate others, which is why they’re often caught for their crimes and other wrongdoings. That’s their Achilles’ heal. The psychopath can’t read people correctly because a) he lacks empathy and the full range of human emotions and b) he continually underestimates everyone and overestimates his own power and intelligence. Claudia
Claudia: Thats what sexual predators are PIMPS!!!!! They use the same technique as pimps do in luring innocent women into prostitution the only difference was I never was paid for my sexual services to him; that is all a sexual predator wants in the long run to get their targets to do more and more and more deviate sexual acts under the initial guise of the love they fake for us. We are exclusive to them until they know we are deeply in love and some women will do these sexual acts to show how much they love them; at least I didnt fall for that trap and crap. Male whore and pimp that is all he ever was beneath that perfect gentlemen facade – that was the ONLY reason he loved bombed me and flattered me to the moon, that was his sole intent from his first hello. I dont believe he discarded me because he found other supply because he ALWAYS had other supply but I believe he was bored with me and knew I caught on to what he was the game was simply over for him. So….l I guess the pimp will go on to recruit and recycle others to feed his perversions GOOD RIDDANCE to a piece of shit – x0 Linda
Linda, very eloquently said! LOL. Claudia
Claudia – such a classy narrative on my part lol Well its the truth I am not going to sugar coat it – a classless, immoral person does not deserve anything other that what he is. I cant think of any other way to describe him other than a piece of shit or pond scum comes to mind. Claudia you just can reach a lower level of being a human in my estimation, its as low as you can get – Linda
Linda, I agree. Claudia
Hey Kel! I hope today is a better day for you than yesterday was. Although I think anger is a good place in the sense that you’re not pining. I’m glad you hate them all, as do I.
For me, I’m starting to move into a place I hadn’t even gotten to that 1 yr & 1/2 we were apart which is total detachment in that I’m seeing him objectively.
You know how you can have a friend or family member who can have jackass, or jackieass (lol) in their life. We, the outside observers can see them for the pathological mean ugly people they truly are. But, the person who is in the relationship isn’t able to see the forest for the trees. They are still clouded and confused by the “human” side they think they see in said jerk, or jerkess. Well, I’m moving from that clouded confused point of view to an objective point of view. I mostly see him as a mean, asshole. A complete jerk and jackass with no redeeming qualitities whatsoever. Nothing compelling about him in the least.
I don’t care if he’s sweet as pie to new gf for the next 12 months. (highly doubt it) but I don’t give a rats arse. At best she has an immature, irresponsible, moody, self-centered idiot who’s never given one ioda about anyone other than himself and will take from her until she’s an empty drum, hollow and vaccuous from the drain he’s created in her. At worst, she has a pathological man who is beyond self centered but is incapable of a genuine sincere moment or thought. She can take all the passion and attention she’s getting now and live it up. At the end of the day, she’ll be a mess and wonder what happened and who she is, unable to recognize herself any longer. Because after being with him long enough, in order to survive you must become like him. Angry, mad, sad, wallowing in misery, extreme highs and lows, confused, manipulative, sneaky, impulsive and wanting to see him suffer.
No thanks. I’d prefer lonliness.
I hope you can stay in that place too Kel, the place of objectivity.
Lisa
Thank you Claudia. 😀
Yes, EVERYTHING is a weapon against you. Truly EVERYTHING. Be it kind, smart, witty, genuine, generous, selfish, strong, or mean it’ll be turned on you and they’ll be amused at the dance they’re leading you in as they do it. Amused at our fumbling steps trying to keep up and gleeful and gloating over themselves for how eloquently they’ve choreographed our dance card.
I can clearly now. Very 🙂
oops….I can SEE clearly now. lol. See clearly and objectively.
Lisa, you’re right, strangers can see the psychopaths for the snakes they are much better than those in relationships with them. Emotional investment can make you blind; plus psychopaths expend a lot of effort to lure their main targets and mask their deviancy to them, or coax them into engaging in deviant acts together. Claudia
Lisa,
It’s an easy place to be when you have absolutely no connection to them whatsoever and they don’t HATE you because you know what they are. I just found out today that my ex is screwing around with some stuff he’s not suppose to which i can’t get into here. I’m a client where he works. he’s not suppose to mess with me, but Mr. Wonderful has a bit of a narc injury right now because his target rejected his ridiculous invitations to meet her while he was out of town. Of course, he blames me for this, although he’ll say nothing to her or anyone else, because I KNOW what he is and I’d blow his ass out of the water AGAIN by outing him to anyone that cares to listen. He implied that I was the one that told her he was married, and she made the choice to blow him off COMPLETELY, even as a friend, after that. As long as you don’t have a vindictive psychopath whose a sneaky, stealth little bastard that he is, you’re going to be just FINE! Sometimes, it doesn’t pay to out the psychopath. They don’t like people who don’t think they’re perfect and know their true nature. I’m sick to death of “fearing” his reprisals. I see EXACTLY what he is. He’ll have to take his little narc injury and power trip and shove it! I won’t let him push me into living in FEAR anymore. I’m sooooooooooooooo done. Kel
Dawn,
Mine is similar to that also in some ways. He hates the energy to maintain relationships also. I was attracted to mine because of his “calm, cool, collected” demeanor. Boy did I misread THAT. Your insight into seeing how he lured you is excellent and this is a very important point that you’re making too. Psychopaths ARE human beings, whether we like it or not, they are flesh, blood and brain like the rest of us, but have no HEART, no empathy, no love, in that way they are empty, but anyway, because of the human aspects, they are each individuals and will manifest their behaviors in different ways or be of different types of psychopaths. I wonder how many women look up to see whether or not their man (or woman) exhibits certain traits and because he/she doesn’t check off on all the traits they believe him/her NOT to be psychopathic. That is the biggest mistake of all. Mine had MOST of the traits, but some he didn’t. He wasn’t violent. He has a job that he’s worked at for 25 years. He has a home he’s owned for quite some time. Outward success, inward NIGHTMARE. Social hiding at its finest. I say if they check off on even one, RUN!!!!!!!!!!!! Kel
Kelli, you work with Mr. Dumbass? That would make it extraordinarily difficult. It’s difficult enough for me to be in the same school district and have mutual colleagues. It’s sometimes difficult for me to have associations with the PE teacher at my school for the mere reason that my ex is a PE teacher which is how we met. Just the association of interacting with the guy in shorts with a whistle in the gym can be a mild trigger for me. I’m so sorry you have to be tied to him in anyway. Shite!
My ex didn’t do the “I have loved you” at least not that I recall. But, ALWAYS qualified his love ‘I love you, but….’ Always told me “you’re the one person I just can’t seem to walk away from. I always know I’ll come back to you. It’s never a doubt in my mind. I just worry you might be married or something when I do. I assume in his mind this is a great treasure for me that I can hold onto all these empty nights while he’s holding the current prey. Goodie, he’ll be back in a yr? Maybe 2? Jump for joy! I’ll just keep your side of the bed warm, your drawer empty and slippers next to the bed in the meantime okay honey? aaahaaha! Seriously colossal epic dumbass.
Well, I hate your dumbass for you as well Kelli.
Dumbass who only looks keen to the man in the mirror. We know that reflections a mirage of a monster. Dumbasses w/out a clue we mock and laugh at your stupidity whilst you are busy kissing yourself in the mirror and getting lost in your own wonderment. 😉
😀 Lisa 😀
Well said Claudia. They are ALL wolves underneath whatever they mascarade as. Peel off the layers and exterior and what you’re left with is a Stepford version of wanna be Don Juans. So galantly pleasing to themselves. It must get tiring spending so many hours gazing at ones own reflection whilst a whole world is happening outside of that mirror, like Wonderland. They aren’t able to join our world of color wonder and charm because their house of mirrors keeps them lost in their maze of self reflection which they and they alone are astounded at their glory. I think we should rescue all the misfits on the island Rudolph and Ukon Corneluis drift too and replace them with psychopaths. They can torture, play games with and demean one another for all eternity.Maybe the abominable snowman can be their island mascot whom they can order around to change all their lightbulbs. Think of the power they’d feel at ordering such a large prey around.
I’m getting a bit of amusement out of myself this evening. I should take those creative juices to my blog and post something. Too tired though. Perhaps tomorrow. Lisa
Claudia,
It really does sound like a very interesting read. Kel
PS Kel, something struck me about your post. When you mentioned his being upset because you supposedly “outed” him. That is hilariously comical to me. He’s the one lieing. He’s the one cheating on his wife and lieing to the woman/women he’s attempting to trap. And HE is holding judgement on YOU, for being honest about something? Really?! Illustrative of a dumbass from the island of giant dumbasses. 😉 Do you see the out of touch thinking that illustrates? Oh brother!
Lisa
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, LINDA!!!!
I hope today brings you a new start on the journey to a new you and that you’re able to find a way to celebrate yourself today with peace, love and joy!!! XXOO!!!! Enjoy your wonderful day! Kel
THANK YOU!!! That birthday wish made my day. Today I am thinking how much I miss my parents and NOT the path – I am reflecting back to the good things that were once in my life – My daughter is taking me to the new vampire movie that is out today, (ugh another vampire ha ha) not my choice in movies but just being with my daughter is what I am looking forward to and that buttery popcorn. Trying to focus on all the good things that have been in my life and you cant really appreciate it until you have almost lost it all x0x0 Linda
Lisa, this description of the psychopath’s narcissism is very eloquently put, with a literary flair. It does sound like the kernel for one of your blog entries… Please show us the link to it once you write it. Claudia
Lisa, it sounds like Mr. Dumbass was preping you for some nice Relationship Boomerang, backup status, to be available at his beck and call, whenever his Highness chose to go back to you. TYPICAL psychopath behavior, as you know. Claudia
Kelli, Craig Ackley really clarifies in his book that psychopaths are “cool, calm and collected” ONLY when it comes to other people’s suffering and distress, not when it comes to their own. As we all know, they lack the range of emotions, missing those related to empathy for OTHERS, but they do have emotions that pertain to THEMSELVES, which is why they become so ANGRY, VINDICTIVE, and FRUSTRATED whenever their desires or plans are thwarted in any way. Claudia
Kel, I fully support your decision to go straight to his boss and inform him about this harassment. Never take any abuse by a psychopath lying down. Those who do get trampled over by these cowardly psychopathic bullies. Claudia
Linda, HAPPY BIRTHDAY! I hope you will enjoy the time with your daughter, even if Twilight wouldn’t have been your movie pick. I wish you a wonderful year, filled with good health, increased peace and happiness and accomplishments. Claudia
LInda,
I think you’re referring to the Twilight Series. I believe the movie is called “Breaking Dawn”. My daughter loves that series and I saw the last one with her. I annoyed her because throughout the movie I kept asking what was going on lol! It was fun though, you should enjoy it. The series isn’t that bad! lol! Have a great day and enjoy it all Linda! Psychopath FREE! Kel
Absolutely! My ex badly underestimated my intelligence and my value system. I feel quite certain that he never considered I would discover his double life and reject him entirely.
Dawn, psychopaths have such a sense of superiority and omnipotence that they feel they can get away with anything, even murder, even if they can’t. And when they don’t, the funny thing is, they don’t really care. They find a way to manipulate and torture others even in jail. Especially there! Only there they run into many others like themselves, so very often, it’s dog eat dog. Claudia
Lisa,
RE: Your post of the lying dumbasses. Yep, he holds me accountable for everything. His pancreatitis (he’s alcoholic), the dissolution of his marriage, his loss of target one (I take TOTAL responsibility for “outing” him on that one), and basically for ruining his life. Um, noooooooooooooo ………..but if you think like they do, this is EXACTLY WHAT they think and how he thinks. What’s really, REALLY hard for me right now, is that he’s been successful at building this new persona with new wife. Her kids, etc, and a new church. He keeps it all compartmentalized, even HER. So while she believes she’s got the marriage partner and father of her children for a lifetime, he runs off to another state to lure a former target. I wish she knew. Because I hold that information, it bothers me. I feel sorry for her and want to kick his ass! Kel
Kelli, my ex used to blame me for his illnesses too. He told me I transmitted ‘city cooties’. It couldn’t be caused by excessive use of alcohol or an extremely poor diet, now could it?
Mine claims to have pancreatic problems too but doesn’t even attempt to change his lifestyle. I used to wonder if he is intentionally killing himself. He always claimed that he would not live to old age.
Kel, too bad the target he just chased once remarried won’t out him. It would be great if she did! Expose, expose, expose. Leave nothing for the psychopath to hide behind. Claudia
Claudia
He’s a nightmare for her. She’s just glad he’s gone, got the message that she wasn’t going to play the game and that’s it for her. I don’t blame her, really. Kel
Kel, neither do I. These psychopaths enjoy all kinds of cat and mouse games, so if she contacted his new wife, that would actually provide more entertainment for him (first he’d be furious, then he’d have fun with it and find a way to play the two women off each other). Claudia
Claudia,
Triangulation doesn’t have to mean a sexual affair took place, Claudia. It’s just as much fun for them to triangulate merely by implication. 🙂 What a serious waste of time. Kel
Kel, as long as he leaves you alone, he can triangulate however and with whomever he wants. Who cares? He’s a Loser. That’s the bottom line. Please keep in mind that for psychopaths there’s an endless supply of potential victims. Claudia
Claudia another great article. I know I always tell you that but it is.
I was love bombed, totally. My ex used every hook in the book to get me and it worked, sadly. The reason I believed him was that we did have a past, and we did (I thought) have a connection. But that was only in my OWN head, the fact he read me so well and came out with stories about the day he first met me that matched mine was only a testament to the power of a path’s ability to suss you out in every way.
I’ve been quiet again because I’ve started my blog! I’ve only done 3 posts so far, and its sort of a story of my life as well as warning of the dangers of a psychopath. I have to thank you Claudia, and all the bloggers on the site too, as without them I could not write so eloquently and with so much knowledge, if I you all had not given me the information. I do use some descriptions and terms of phrase that I have learned here, because they are so so well put. I hope you don’t mind that, and I have mentioned in my posts that without the help of this site and the people on it, I would not be able to describe my path’s traits so well.
It also has helped me immensely shut the path out of my mind and focus on myself. I have no job just now but I find writing now fills my days and I feel so much lighter when I have completed a post. My friends have given such great feedback too and they are funnily enough saying they are hooked and can’t wait for the next instalment. On a serious note I am totally aware of the fact that path’s never want exposed. They do not take kindly to it. I never mention names, mine included. I keep it like a story interwoven with information on this disorder. I also keep it simple like you and Keli told me to do.
I want to thank you all on this site for helping me, and for being there for me at all times. The last few weeks have not been easy, but I got support from you here and kind words and strength. My ex is in Scotland this weekend and I am not getting in an emotional state because he wouldn’t see me unless it was to go to a sex club. It’s a strange feeling, its not like I don’t care about it but I think its maybe indifference??? I never thought I’d see that day Claudia. And I never could have without you.
Love to you all
Lesleyxxxxx
Lesley, congratulations on all the progress you’ve made and on starting your own blog. Please feel free to post a link to it here, on this thread, since I’m sure many of us would like to read it (including me).
It’s interesting you mention indifference. Susan was saying earlier she can’t bring herself to care about her ex, what he’s doing and psychopathy in general anymore. I’ve reached the same point. My motivation for writing about psychopathy was a) to work through my own emotions and trauma and b) to help other victims and inform the general public. Only option b) is left. I couldn’t care less about my ex, what he’s doing, with whom, or even about our past. The love and any positive feelings went first, in December 2007, when I first discovered what the psychopath was doing and what he was and broke up with him. But the feelings of anger and betrayal from that trauma that nearly destroyed my family lasted until this year. Now they’re gone too. The personal emotional impetus for writing this blog, which has been so therapeutic for me, is gone. All I have left is the desire to help others. I think each one of us eventually reaches the point of indifference after the trauma of having been with these monsters is completely processed, both emotionally and intellectually. Indifference happens not when you will it to happen, but on its own.
If there’s any consolation Lesley (and everyone), psychopaths always lose in the end. They lose jobs, relationships and the trust and loyalty of others. With each new victim they feel invincible. They cheat, lie and manipulate others from a position of omnipotence. Their greatest strength is seeing other people’s weaknesses. Their greatest weakness is not seeing other people’s strengths. Claudia
Claudia
Thank you and I will do!
It is so strange you mention your impetus has run out in some aspects of writing about psychopaths. I can see exactly why that would happen, as the more you get it out and talk about it the more you see them for what they are, and the further away you go from them, mentally and emotionally..if that makes sense? I only just said to my sister, I hope I don’t run out of steam and start getting a bit bored with it as everyone seems to really like it, even though is dark and my friends think very compelling. I think when you start these things your emotions and feelings are, maybe not quite as raw, but you do still have an emotional investment in what you write. To an extent I still have, but as more comes out I see what he did to me much more for what it was and that he had so many other women on the go and that really I was nothing. If I was nothing then he deserves to be nothing and then you start to think that he does not deserve to even be acknowledged as being alive. He isn’t in a lot of ways. But its also a story about me and my life so I will carry that on – I think it has already helped some people I know and that is how I shall see it, as a release and a help to others maybe.
Your final line Claudia is so incredibly true. One of my friends read my blog and said that the real tragedy was that my ex lost someone beautiful and extremely talented and clever. But he has lost many like that, and all the bloggers on this site have been discarded when they should all have been treasured for their love and being.
lesleyxxxxx
Lesley, I think the emotional investment which remains is in spreading information about psychopaths and personality disorders in general, so that fewer people will be burned or so that they can recover faster. For me, that was there from the start, in 2007, and it’s still there. In a way it’s a better motivation because it’s more other-regarding than the motivation of processing one’s own pain and trauma. But in another way it’s a less frenzied, less urgent goal. A calmer goal. When you first experience the trauma of the psychopathic bond, you release emotions through writing for relief; for some kind of release from a pain you can’t yet escape. When you don’t feel that pain anymore, there’s no pressure valve either: in fact, no pressure at all. The writing occurs in a calmer manner and at a less urgent pace. At least this has been my experience. Plus, no longer ruminating about the psychopath also frees up my energy to focus on other projects which are a high priority for me: the screenplay of my novel, Velvet totalitarianism, which will be made into a movie and an exciting new online multimedia salon, http://U-Sophia.com. I look forward to reading your blog entries. Claudia
Sounds like everyone is making great progress!
I’m jumping on to describe an interview I heard on CNN (I think) of a young woman who was date raped. She is trying to bring this to the light of day on college campuses, and also says dialogue about it should not only be about women protecting themselves (which is difficult as she points out, since you don’t have your finger on the mace trigger when you are with a friend), but teaching men how wrong this is. Not sure how successful the latter will be.
But the main reasons I bring this up are 1) these guys are mostly likely psychopathic so that is a connection we should help these young women make….it is not just a guy who got carried away. As my husband says “It is never too late for a woman to say: ‘no, stop’ ” 2) this woman described well that it took her MONTHS to process what had happened, that she had indeed been raped. This man was a long time friend, they hung out lots, he pretended he had forgotten his wallet in his dorm, she went to the room with him and as soon as she stepped inside, he locked the door.
What happened next was very clearly rape…..(and this woman was a virgin, which mattered a great deal to her)…and yet it took her months to realize it.
We all know what that is like. What struck me is how hard we victims of psychopaths are on ourselves for not “waking up sooner”; yet even when the evidence of intentional harm is as clear as forcible rape, we normal human beings have a very difficult time realizing that our “friend” was no friend at all, and a hard time acknowledging what was done to us. For her, it was impossible for many, many months. How much harder, then, it must be to recognize that psychological harm was indeed emotional rape.
We may have years of a trusting relationship or positive memories, against which we suddenly have this awful experience, and we simply can’t make sense of it.
Yet if a stranger had forcibly raped this young woman, she would have instantly felt yes, I was raped against my will and hopefully recognized that nothing about it was her fault, though sometimes even in this scenario, some victims take on blame.
And if a psychopathic stranger suddenly emotionally raped us, or made the attempt, it might shake us up, but we would recognize it as ‘crazy” right away. In my job in animal welfare, for example, sometimes I get a call from someone either actually abusing an animal or pretending to abuse one, clearly trying to create a nightmare image in my mind, knowing such a reality would be highly disturbing to me. I simply hang up.
Unfortunately, that kind of intentional harm is rarely clearly shown by the psychopath on a first meeting.
Bottom line….be gentle with yourself if you are still hurting, getting over that cognitive dissonance (S/He was good, no s/he was bad, no s/he was both, no s/he was bad even when I thought s/he was good, wait, what about …) is not a quick process for most of us, and in a way is a confirmation of how very human we are, and how very non-human psychopaths are in the emotional realm. It is a difficult thing to wrap your brain around at first.
Kel & Claudia, Mine would triangulate by inuendo ALL the time. For the first 3 years we were together he was physically faithful. But, talked about interest in other women continually. Compared me to his ex wife, coworkers, any other female he could come up with to articulate a comparison of some kind he would. Sometimes it’d be flattery, sometimes it would be to make me jealous, sometimes to spark a competitive spirit so I’d try really hard to please him. He always had a motive and always kept some sort of mental/verbal triangulation going until the first “fling.” He claimed, (AND SO convincingly – I do think he believed his lies himself) to absolutely abhor the drama this triangulation created. He seemed to be the one perpetuating it, although the blame was placed on me. He also would tell me how he and the other woman had no drama. They NEVER fought. Therefore, it had to be me that was loving, and perpetuating the drama. The ONLY time they ever disagreed was in regards to me. He says he was always defending me because she thought I was a crazy jealous psycho and he would “stick up for me.” Plus she’d say “Why does Lisa always WIN!” Whenever he would discard her, temporarily of course.
This always bothered me “WIN?” What is it a contest? Is he a prize? What did I win? A cheating lieing male whore? Oh yippee!!! Let me bask in my glorious triumph! You can have him sweetie. lol. Well she’s happily married to very nice fellow now. Guess SHE’s the one who won. lol.
Interestingly this summer, he brought her up and mentioned something she always got mad at him about. Hmm…I thought they never fought? Curiously, during the time when I was checking his emails one of her “goodbye” emails stated, “Well, you should be glad to be rid of me. At least your life will be DRAMA free.” Guess the drama wasn’t my fault but her fault because it couldn’t have possibly been HIS fault. Huh…but HE did say their relationship was drama free. Was he lying then, 3 yrs ago? Or, lying now? Who gives a rats arse. lol..
Oh it is so fun to have detachment and humor again. As all these little memories pop up from time to time, I just have to laugh at his own stupidity. It must be awful tiring working on this convolution endlessly.
Claudia, yes the endless supply of victims is what I find so surprising. I really truly believed I was a lark for him that I stayed with him in the beginning even though I knew he wasn’t a ‘catch’. I knew he was a jackass early on. Much to my surprise he has NO trouble whatsoever finding seemingly smart, intelligent, attractive, women who stay w/him for just over a year tyically. I suppose for him, 8 years WAS a lark. lol…
I think an important lesson here is when someone lies to you early on, they don’t get a second chance. One lie indicates that there are LOTS more lies where that came from. It is our nature to want to give someone the benefit of the doubt. Of course we all make mistakes. But we don’t all LIE about them. Yes, we can forgive the lie if the person has come clean and expressed regret. However forgiveness doesn’t mean the lie came w/out consequence. The consequence is I’ll forgive you as I’m seeing you out the door. You won’t get the opportunity to make more mistakes that you feel you’ll need to lie about. Bye, bye. That is the moral of the story for me.
Lisa
Susan I saw that CNN interview as well. I had the very same thought when she mentioned educating men how to treat women is the key. I’m not sure that is the answer. As you said, if the men who are raping women are psychopaths then educating them is a waste of time. Bottom line if a woman hasn’t given “her permission” or expressed willingness and desire to be intimate w/a man then he has no right to just take what he wants because he wants it. I think most “normal” men are aware of this. It’s the ones who don’t care that commit rape. They are aware the woman isn’t interested, they just don’t care. Where my ex is concerned the more you don’t want it, the more he DOES. He finds lack of desire on the womans part a huge turn on. The key is teaching the women to trust themselves, to protect themselves above ALL else. Not to be afraid of “hurting” his feelings by being more forceful with resisting him. To trust yourself when you are uncomfortable with a situation and to make smart choices in NOT trusting men you don’t know very, very well.
Lisa
Lesley, I am so glad you’ve started your blog!! Yes, it is very cathartic.
Claudia & Leslie, I can completely relate with how the process of writing about your experience actually decreases your need to write about your experience. The process in a manner is working against the very reason for the process. lol. I too have come to a complete place of indifference. My ex seems like a stranger to me now. I see him as a person completely and totally outside of my own life in every way. I feel absolutely no connection to him, and have no feelings for him whatsoever. Consequently my desire to write about my experience has declined. I simply remind myself the reason why I started and how I sincerely want others to be aware of these predators to keep me going. So, it is that desire that keeps me going and wanting to continue my blog. I may have recovered. But, I can’t forget the years of hell and turmoil and how that may be happening to another who isn’t aware of who/what they are dealing with. Only when they are made aware of who they are dealing with can their own road to recovery begin. That is the thinking that keeps me going.
Lisa
Susan
I find this post to be salve to my emotional wounds at the moment. Thanks for understanding. This post means a lot to me. Kel
Lisa, I’m glad you have begun your blog, to use your experience and writing abilities to help others, even if you have become indifferent to the psychopathic ex. We all eventually get over the trauma, but we can still try to help others, who are at the beginning phase of realizing they’re with disordered individuals or in the middle of the shock of this realization. Claudia
Susan, thank you also for sharing this story and for your encouraging remarks. We don’t all heal at the same time because there are so many factors: our past histories, the degree of enmeshment with the psychopath, the length of our relationships, our support system, our health: in other words, everything about our lives is a factor in how and when we heal.
I know that I would have healed years sooner had I not been so angry that the psychopath attacked not just me, but also my family, whom he sought to destroy. I was also angry about his constant cyberstalking, and I’m sure that’s its point, to try to rattle me. But it doesn’t get to me anymore. It’s a waste of his time, not mine. Kel, I know it’s difficult to see this when you’re feeling bad, but you too will experience indifference and overcome the trauma. Claudia
Lisa, the triangulation pattern sounds very familiar, but how do you know that your ex was physically faithful to you the first three years? They manage to find time to cheat even when they’re monitoring and controlling their main targets 24/7. My ex would take his laptop on weekends to his wife’s work place, where she put in extra time to make money for their new house. From there he would send me romantic messages, watch porn and email other women, right under her nose. He bragged to me that he had several screens with real estate information, to fool her. She was sitting right across from him and thought he was looking at houses, while he was engaged in sexual communication with his various mistresses and flings. You can never be sure any psychopath is faithful, even when he’s sitting right across from you or spends 90 percent of his time around you. They have a compulsion to cheat and lie because that’s the only way they feel empowered and in control. Claudia
Kel, I just wanted to piggy back on what Claudia just stated. It IS difficult to imagine you will one day be in a place of complete indifference. But, I and everyone else here who has reached that point are proof positive that you WILL get there. You WILL get to a place of indifference. You WILL have days, times, and even years when your health will be better than it is today and you’ll be feeling stronger in everyway. Only a month ago, I wasn’t sure I would ever feel completely detached and removed from Dumbass. I truly believed that a part of me will always love him and will always have a weak spot for him. I no longer feel that way. We had become so enmenshed that I seriously could not concieve of a ever being at a place of complete seperatness from him. In my mind I believed he was at that place with me too. That I would always be a part of him and we would always have this connection that he didn’t have with anyone else. Today, I don’t care whether he feels connected to me, or hasn’t given a thought about me in the least. Whatever trangresses across his mind is of no more importance to me than what the grocery clerk (whom I’ve never met) down the street is thinking at this moment, or whom he/she is thinking of. You will get there. One of things that helps me reach that state of detachment is be doing things to improve myself and my life. The more I improve myself and the higher concept I get of myself the lower my opinion and the lesser the time I miss what I thought I had with Dumbass gets. It’s almost as if I replace the passion I had for loving him with a passion for loving myself and the wonderful life I have w/out him. I see it as that we (victims) are idealizing the psychopath in a very unrealistic light. We are idealizing the image of a feeling human being with frailities whom we understand and love them in spite of, in much of the same way as they idealized us at one time. It’s all imagery. You just need to change that imagery and turn the light toward yourself. I hope some of this makes sense and resonates with you. I wait for the day when we can rejoice together in our indifference!!
Lisa
Claudia/Lisa,
I appreciate your encouraging words. It really isn’t just “all about him’. Today is my birthday and I’m struggling with the year of firsts, not just without my ex, but my bio fam too, my health, uncertainty.
I would rather do that privately, than publicly now. I’m learning to accept that I do this without a lot of support around me.
At this time, I really don’t have much to say or much to offer here at this time. I’m glad you all are in a good place. Especially you, Claudia for all the years that it has taken.
Kel
Kel, I know, you have so many factors to deal with, not just the psychopathic ex. But you’re a very strong woman and you do have some support (your family and Herc) and us too, but it’s in a more indirect way, from afar… Happy Birthday, enjoy this day with your family as much as possible. Claudia
I’m very glad, and it is kind of you to say so.
And good points Lisa.
Lesley,
I often wonder if that is said to make us feel better about ourselves lol! But I think it’s true, and it isn’t just “us” with our ex’s, or about the other women that are or have been in his life. Most of the victims ARE good people. Sure, there are some that are not, but at least in the case of my ex, the women he had, were extremely intelligent, attractive and KIND. Psychopaths wont get far with women who AREN’T. Anyway, I hope you’ll provide a link so we may read your blog. I’m excited to see it. I’ve read Lisa’s too and it’s very good as well! Kel
Lisa: You spoke of “indifference” in a light that I am trying to achieve. I am not quite there yet because when I think of him with others it STILL hurts; when I envision him idolizing his other victims as he once did me it causes me a great deal of pain not to mention anger. I try to keep my perspective of what he is at the front of my mind and thoughts but as you stated I think its the letting go of the imagery we carried in our hearts and minds when we were in the relationship; thinking I shared a special connection with him that he will never have with others is also a part of that image I have of us. His actions told me loud and clear just what a special connection he had with me – it never existed but he did a good job pretending it did.
Lisa here is the problem; I wish he could see the NEW ME standing right in front of him I wish he could see despite everything he did to try and destroy me that I am still standing (some days b etter than others) that despite that he only saw me as “weak” its quite the contrary, I am strong because I survived his betrayal. I am no longer in his control and pathological grip and/or bond he had on me. In all our humanity we are stronger than they are; we are not ADDICTS to sex, supply, control and power over others. We find our existence to be much more gratifying to pursue a life that is filled with love, and genuine human emotions and connection to others. I wish he could see that I am a better person that he will ever be, but they never stick around to see that reality, when the mirrors are gone that maintained the imagery they run. Yet despite the fact it still hurts when I know he is at this very moment doing to others what he did to me, I must remember its a house of mirrors for them just as it was for me. Maybe that is my closure to just know that he will never be capable of loving another human being; having said that nothing else really matters. The only thing that matters now is securing my own life and making it better. x0x0 Linda
Kelli – HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!! There were many things that triggered sadness on my birthday a few days ago mostly thinking about loved ones that are no longer with me and remembering all the birthdays I shared with them and how special they made my birthday. At the end of the day however I realized those memories will always be with me to reflect back on; they are good, warm and loving memories. I try to remember the people in my life that truly love/loved me and not those that have hurt me – I hope you had a nice birthday – x0x0 Linda
Linda,
Thanks for the Happy B’day wishes, my dear. I appreciate it.
In response here to your post, your aftermath symptoms with the cog/dis, the “he’s good, he’s bad” scenario (having love bombed you, and not trolling other targets), realizing that they ARE love bombing other targets (as I showed you in my situation with target one I became aware of), and that there are probably MANY that we are not aware of, is exactly why the luring phase is so especially dangerous. We revel in it while it’s happening and we ruminate about it when it’s over. How can someone be so FAKE? I did some snooping yesterday (I know, bad idea, but..) and found out some things that were surprising, but also helped me to see that the love bombing or whatever I perceived to be good about him, never was, in any way, shape or form. Not one thing was genuine. Not his “friendships” nothing. Why would I suffer needlessly over someone who is basically a mirage of a human being who will only change personas and nothing else? Why would I be envious of women he targets, thinking they’re getting something I didn’t get? What is new wife getting now? Pretty much the same as the other wives and probably the MANY OW’s he’s had. If I was a gambling girl, I’d bet this man has many more women that I wasn’t aware of. The lies were endless. Why would I be envious of that? In thinking about it more, the pain derives from believing a FANTASY that was never true. I realized I could care less about what he’s doing, other than I feel very sorry for those who will continue to be victimized in his life on a daily basis and this poor woman who is being isolated, controlled and compartmentalized while he’s on the prowl again. Thank GOD target one and I are on friendly terms and TALK to one another. She avoided him. I learned many lessons from her. While his texts to her, initially, hurt me, I saved what she sent and i read them and see how insanely ridiculous and narcissistic they are, full of lies, full of self centeredness and grandiosity. Yuck.
Is that what I’m missing? No. I had to become very honest with myself.
What I miss is a relationship. What I miss is sex. But I don’t miss it enough to allow myself to be hurt again. Quite a quandry to be in on some levels, but others, a peaceful recognition of myself too. I also realized that although I’m out almost a year now, and have been “love bombed” by other men since (it really disgusts me now, and I see it plainly for what it is), I also fear NICE men, even though I know that it’s REAL. My men friends I’ve had for a long time are so much safer lol! I can talk to them and they me and we’re on an equal playing field, ya know? But nothing is ever going to come out of those relationships except friendship. Stepping outside of that comfort zone, even if I felt I was beginning to care for someone else, is frightening. I’m more likely to back off and kiss it goodbye, even if there was the slightest potential. It’s interesting how many times I’ve seen on other blogs, others jumping into relationships just after their psychopaths, or at least within a few months. I suppose for a relative few, this could be a good thing, but for most, it’s too soon. I’m realizing that this man did more damage to me than I had initially thought. It touches many deeper levels for me. It’s very frustrating at times too. But I guess I’ve reached the point where it is what it is. One of those levels of damage is not even willing to risk what may be a decent relationship with someone else, derived in every good way, out of fear.
Why did they do what they did to us? Well, cuz they’re psychopaths. We spend so much time trying to understand and figure it all out, when the answer is really simple, it’s our healing and the aftermath that is so hard. It’s trying to “dismiss” in our minds the lure. How can someone do this to us? Because they can. They more often than not, do, and there will always be an endless supply source for them. Endless. What that also tells me, given that there are so many more willing to buy into the psychopathic lure, is that there are an awful lot of nice people in the world who will one day occupy this blog and/or many others, in their own aftermath from these dangerous men and women.. That is the saddest part, I think.
And so my devotion lies in healing myself, but also to help other victims, using whatever gifts I have, to ease the pain and suffering of many more that will surely come to pass.
I understand what you’re going through Linda. I don’t think there is anything that can ease the pain but time. Eventually, as in many of the other bloggers here, we’ll hit a place that feels less burdensome and borne out of indifference. I’ve stopped fighting what I feel. What hurts, hurts. But I want to stay positive in that I know that this too shall pass and it will for you too. Hugs. Kel
Linda, psychopaths relish only your defeat but don’t admire your triumphs. Even if your psychopathic ex saw everything you’ve become and accomplished since your breakup, he’d still focus SOLELY on your weaknesses and try to tear you down. That’s how these narcissistic predators think. It’s all about cultivating their illusory but pervasive sense of superiority to EVERYONE ELSE by only seeing other people’s weaknesses and exacerbating them. That’s the ONLY way psychopaths maintain their false sense of superiority and control (plus by surrounding themselves only with individuals who worship them, and only for as long as they worship them). What’s most important is how YOU feel and what you see when you look at yourself, now that you’re stronger and more confident than you were before. Claudia
Linda that is sort of the place I was at just before reaching indifference. It’s definintely a process that evolves with time. I think it also evolves with practice of actually diverting your thoughts intentionally to a place of indifference. Sort of faking it until your mind believes it an lives it. I don’t know if this last offense of his has helped me get there faster. I suspect it has. He just so blatantly did the EXACT thing he had promised countless times this year he would NOT do. It’s the thing I’ve forgiven him for countless times. He knew it was an extremely difficult thing for me to allow him back in my life this year and I did it very cautiously always believing he would eventually do this again. I just didn’t think it would be so soon and so carelessly. But beyond the cheating he has physically hurt me numerous times. Not intentionally in a directly abusive way. But, he is just careless and clumsly with me intimately. I don’t want to elaborate beyond that. He broke my tail bone which took about 7 years to heal. I don’t think it’ll ever be compeltely healed. Yet, it didn’t matter one ioda to him. There were numerous times he’s hurt my physically and it didn’t matter to him a bit.
He was suicidal and more destraught then I’d ever seen him this year. He used that to lure me back in. Used my empathy for his suffering. I sacrificed a great deal of my own life to care for him. Then when he hurt me (physically) and I sent him a txt to let him know what he had done, (just after I had told him to never contact me again.)stupidly thinking I’d get a bit of empathy in return! Yet his response was flat and cold. “Please don’t contact me again.” Is all he had to say. That response to my informing him how he had hurt me made something in my brain snap. I suddenly was able to see him almost as a robot. Unfeeling. Mechanical. Without a heart. Without a soul. I did suffer from cog. diss. a month or so. But, I believe this event has pushed me to indifference more quickly. The other thing that has helped me reach indifference is that when my thoughts turned to sympathy, empathy, longing, or seeing him as human in anyway, I would stop myself. I would then turn my thoughts not to anything he had ever said, or anything human about him at all, rather I would see him as the sum of all the pain and misery he caused me. Every act of meanness, every thoughtless, careless word or deed, every time he’d lie to me, every time he would intentionally cause me deep pain so I would discard him, every fake moment of humanity he used to garner sympathy I would see him as the sum of these. Nothing more. That helps take the humaness away as well.
Once you get there. It will no longer matter to you what he thinks of you, or what he thinks of anybody or anything. His thoughts are inconsequntial to you. You are so far above and beyond anything he’ll ever amount to, his thinking matters to you and your life no more than what a fly buzzing around the room thinks. It’s meaningless. It’s so meaningless that anything his new victim is experiencing has no factor to your existence either. Let them play out their roles. Have their fake life. It’ll be crashed and burned just as every relationship he’s ever had has and will in the future. That is his gift to the world. Pain and suffering. No thank you. You have too much living and loving to do to waste energy on that. 😀
Lisa
Kel, I am sorry for what you are going through. I was at that very stage for a while as well. I sent a response to Linda that illustrates some of the things I’ve done that helped me move to the place I’m currently at. I know I would never be here though had I still be checking his emails, or fb, or be in communication with any of his prior/future victims. It’s you and Claudia and others on her that kept reminding me NC that helped me get to this place of total indifference more quickly. I know how painful it is. I really, really do!! I know you have a lot of other things going on for you in your life that are heavy on your heart as well. A person can only deal with so much at one time.
I do think for your own healing it would likely be best to cut off any ties, correspondence or connections with this other target of his. I think it keeps you in a place that stagnates your healing. Once you do, I believe you’ll come to a place soon that your heart won’t even ache for his other victims. I don’t mean that in a callouse way. I just mean that I have sympathy for ALL victims of psychopaths, but I no longer have an ache for my ex’s current or past victims on a personal level. I feel the same level of sorrow I would for ANY victim. But, I had to get to a place of detachment from his specific victims as well. Because by feeling their pain, or having specific compassion for their pain I am reliving to some degree my own experience with him. I don’t want to waste another second of my life’s energy on anything remotely connected to him. He is misery. He is pain. He adds nothing meaningful to my life on any level. He is nothing. Just as your ex is. He is nothing. YOU are everything. Those people who bring goodness, kindness, love and caring to your life are everything. They are who deserve your mental space and energy.
Kelli I wish for you a day of only goodness and joy today. No thoughts of Arse Face. Only happy thoughts and wishes. 😀
Lisa
Lisa, even without knowing your psychopathic ex, I’d have to disagree with your assessment that he was careless and clumsy and didn’t hurt you intentionally physically. I think it was beyond carelessness and indifference to your pain. I think it was, once again, INTENTIONAL HARM.
One of the memories I worked out in my “writing cure” with my therapist was when the psychopath I was with once gave me a black eye. We had been at a playground, first on swings, then goofing around chasing each other like little kids. At one point he abruptly turned around and rammed his hard head into my eye, like a bull. It was such a hard blow that I literally fell on the ground. I had a black eye for a week and had to wear sun glasses. I looked like an abused woman trying to hide. He laughed when I first fell to the ground and began crying, then later acted indifferent to my pain that week, like I was making a big deal out of nothing.
A few months later, my therapist went over that “accident” and I realized it was yet one more example of the psychopath’s intentional harm. He was testing out my limits, hurting me physically while making it seem like an “accident”. That’s how it starts. Then he would have proceeded to more overt physical harm, probably of a sexual nature. And it would have probably escalated to physical abuse. I doubt I’d have stayed with him under any circumstances once I realized his malice, but one never knows in advance because psychopaths push the envelope and tip the power balance in their favor so gradually that you don’t notice it until they’ve already gained control.
They dish out however much each victim will take, little by little, so that she barely notices it and gets used to rationalizing each act as carelessness, or clumsiness, or an accident, or anything except facing that she is with a monster who takes great pleasure in a) causing her psychological and physical harm and b) watching her take it each time, an extra power move and sign of her capitulation to his power. Claudia
Lisa,
It’s interesting as you spoke about your ex’s “suffering” and that you’d not seen him more suicidal or upset, whatever….anyway, I wonder if that weren’t just an act. The one thing that Martha Stout talks about in her book, “The Sociopath Next Door” is to watch out for the PITY PLAY. Psychopaths will use this to the HILT to win back a former source of supply. Obviously, if we aren’t paying attention, we can be mercilessly dragged back to square one. My ex pulled this suicidal/depressed act upon his ex wife when he FIRST told her about our affair. That’s all it was, was an ACT. within a year, he was back with me. He used the “sick” “depressed” card I don’t know how many times with her when she was getting close to done or he needed her supply (image, mainly). When you are a human being who FEELS, it’s incredibly difficult not to listen, but as Martha Stout points out, it is best NOT to listen as your outcome after listening shows us.
Another thing is, once they do a hurtful act, and do it again, it’s time to leave. This also happened with my ex. While proclaiming his “love” for me, he would repeatedly hurt me in ways that I specifically asked him NOT too and this clued me in to the reality that his motives were not only evil but SADISTIC. It was all a game to him. It’s all a game to all of them. The pity play is just as dangerous and an ACT as the luring.
I think there was another post here in which you mentioned that your ex was faithful to you for the first three years? Don’t count on it. I thought my ex was faithful to his wife for the first few years of his marriage (He was married to her 17 years, I showed up in year 7), but found out that he had a four year affair with someone else just prior to me. God knows how many other women. I can guarantee that there were other women, even if you never knew about them. now that I’ve seen my ex attempting to love bomb target one that I’m on friendly terms with, THREE MONTHS after he got married AGAIN, it’s pretty much a sure deal that all his marriages worked this way. They simple become too bored of their current relationships to be monogamous. They also feed off the excitement of triangulations. I’ve found out the hard way, that psychopaths and monogamy are the extreme in contradiction. As Sandra Brown says in her book, “Women Who Love Psychopaths”, “The psychopath is monogamous in several relationships at one time, even if she never finds out about them”. Sooooooooooo true!!! Many of them are VERY GOOD at hidden lives. It’s part and parcel of their deviancy. Kel
Claudia,
Excellent observation and I completely agree. Intentional harm with everything they do. It’s very tempting to humanize them in some aspect, or sugar coat “accidents” but they aren’t accidents. They are intentional. Kel
Lisa – I had no idea he inflicted physical injury as well to you; some are violent some dont use physical force, but ALL are capable and walk away and not care they hurt you. I like your summary and analogy of indifference it really makes sense and I am also just starting to feel some indifference but as I said, not quite there just yet. From the little bit of indifference I experience now and then it sure feels great Lisa. Their legacy in what they leave to the world is just that pain and suffering. If I was ever granted the opportunity to say last words to him I would want to tell him anybody that did what you did to my life is a person not capable of loving another human being and that I will never be ashamed that I felt love for you even under the false pretense you presented to me. I am so thankful that I can love and I am not sick, twisted, and perverted like you are and that my life is not a total lie, sham and facade as yours is. I am thankful that I am REAL and that I dont need to resort to pretense to hide the fact I am an empty, shallow person as yourself void of everything that makes us what we fundamentally are. That is what I sometimes wish I had the opportunity to say to him and I dont care that he wouldnt care but he would still heart it and he would know he is a NOTHING in my eyes. but I suppose the NC tells him he is not even worth a narrative on my part – NC tells them they no longer exist to us anymore – contact is like interacting with a fantasy for the most part, why even talk to someone that really never existed to begin with. Basically I quit interacting with a mirage!!!!
I like your expression: “let them play out their FAKE life” because that is exactly what a relationship is with a psychopath it can never ever be anything real because there is nothing real about a psychopath – what you see is never what it is or what you get, NEVER!!!!!! and I dont care who you are in their lives it will never be what they fool you into believing it is. I am living in the real world now and its not so pretty some days, but its real and its the truth and if you cant be true to yourself you really will have nothing in the long run. x0 Linda
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Kel and Lisa, I agree one hundred percent. Psychopaths can’t enjoy a relationship unless a) they are cheating and lying and triangulating (creating rivalries and jealousies among their targets) and b) relatedly, are causing their targets intentional harm and getting away with it (to them this too confirms their false sense of power and superiority). Then, once the mask comes off for each given dupe/victim, they start acting menacing and weird, to exercise power through intimidation tactics, when the duplicity and fake charm no longer do the job. Speaking of duplicity, stay tuned, since this is the subject of Lisa Jean’s first blog post on psychopathyawareness, which is scheduled for tomorrow. Claudia
Kel–same here. He threatened suicide at 18 or 19, claimed I saved his life talking to him on the phone. Played a very similar card at 54, again claiming I saved his life. Guess he forgot he had already used that one on me. 🙂 Same story as yours with the faithfulness, or lack thereof. And so sadistic that I learned to use that to get out of awful situations, by begging to continue. Whatever I wanted, he wanted the opposite.
No wonder therapists who specialize in treating people recovering from a psychopath know what to say (the good ones). P’s are all the same. The stories are all the same, just some variations on a theme…a theme of exploitation, camouflaged at first.
We ruminate about the details, but it is really the big picture we need to see to heal, and Claudia’s writing are excellent for that! The big picture is the same for all of us.
Lisa: BTW, I also agree with Claudia it was INTENTIONAL HARM mine tested me many times with physical pain claiming it was an accident etc…. he would say, oh ok you big baby like the one time he shot scalding hot water from the shower head on my private parts he claimed, it wasnt THAT hot – yes it was my skin was pink for a few days – they enjoy inflicting physical pain as much as mental and emotional its just easier to get by with the later x0 Linda
Linda,
I think it’s very important to understand that sometimes we THINK we’ve reached indifference, only to be triggered AGAIN. I understand this as I have, a few times, felt that I’d reached an true level of indifference, only to have the rug pulled out from under me, not expecting a trigger to occur. This actually is not a BAD thing if you can see it from the perspective of another layer of the onion that needs to be peeled away. Something I buried and thought was resolved when it was NOT. Also, it’s important to note that when, in some way, we are even slightly applying a human factor (heart-emotions) to the psychopath, no matter what it is, there isn’t truly indifference yet, even if it may feel more so than not. The hardest thing to accept is that the ENTIRE relationship was a lie, that EVERYTHING that happened, was calculated to suck you in, or to spit you out. It’s either a lie or a manipulation (sugar coated lie). NOTHING they do is genuine. Absolutely nothing. Nothing they say they FEEL is genuine in the slightest. There is ALWAYS an agenda at every given moment and if you’re involved with a psychopath, everything is a set up for harm. I find it interesting, having it mentioned here on the blog, that this is what psychopaths must feel towards us, this indifference. Um, no,….I don’t think that’s it. Our feeling of indifference is not the same as a psychopath, nor can it be categorized and labeled as such. Their motivation consistently is HARM, this does NOT imply indifference, in fact, the opposite, but not in a nice way! Truthfully, I don’t think any of us can imagine the intent and motivation to harm. There just is no way. I thank GOD that I cannot visualize this. I don’t even want to try. I hope you don’t feel discouraged about where you’re at, Linda. Recovery is a very individual process. It’s taken Claudia a LONG time to get there. I’ve only been out a year. Your last contact has only been just a few months, so be very patient with yourself, as frustrating as it might feel at times, or maybe feeling like the angry feelings will never pass, if you keep working on yourself and your life, they will. I think time is a very key factor in the healing process. Coming to terms with a lack of closure, justice and everything that was done to you, takes a long time to sort through but you’ll get there. Expect some bumps and bruises along the way, but I think what you’ll find as time goes on, is even when you think you’ve reached indifference and then a trigger hits you, you get past them a lot faster. I see them as opportunities for growth. You’ve already come quite a way in just a few months. Kel
Susan.
“whatever I wanted, he wanted the opposite”. So true. That took me forever to figure out. One of the things that target one told me while he was texing her was “he’s choppy. He never sticks to one thing, you always have to figure out what he’s trying to say or how to say it. It’s exhausting. It’s way too confusing”. I remember that so well. Everyday it was like that. Mine was absolutely horrible that way. He was never consistent with anything at all. I saw how that was also purposeful to keep me completely off balance. YIKES, what a rollercoaster that was. One of the things they LOVE to do is to make you believe that perhaps an argument is settled or something you want with communication will be given in the future that has not been. The reality is that they don’t WANT you to feel settled or comfortable at all. THIS unpredictability created the massive anxiety I lived out of him everyday. It took a long time to see it for the calculated effort at control that it was. What a mind*uck! It’s taken nearly a year just to piece my thoughts together again to where things make sense so that I’m not overanalyzing every single thing said and or done just to make sense of it. I still over analyze, but not nearly to the degree that I had to in trying to survive in that relationship. Even in conversation, whatever I wanted, would surely not be given. Isn’t it sad, Susan that one would need to state the opposite of what they want, so that perhaps they could get it? Or get OUT of something? UGH! Kel
Claudia, Kelli and all – As strong as I am now if I stood before him he would find my weak spots it would take him about 3 minutes. We ALL have weaknesses; however what he found weak 5 years ago is no longer a weak area in my makeup but he would find something else I am sure, your right he would ignore my strengths and focus on what he could exploit in me. Kelli I too miss sex, just in general but nobody will ever exploit me sexually again as a solution to feeling alone because I AM NOT alone I have never been alone I have always had myself. I never felt more alone in my entire life than when I was sexually involved with him as I look back – I felt so alone because I was used and abused and I did not have the power to stop it I just kept allowing it, I felt alone because I was allowing myself to be damaged I was alone in my own hell by my choosing. The discomfort of today does not even come close to the mental turmoil I was constantly in when I was with him, I FEEL FREE almost as if I have been released from what I can only describe as a living nightmare. If he thinks he hurt me by discarding me he better think again it was the kindest thing he ever did for me despite the moments I have. Its a GOOD thing when a psychopath no longer finds you useful because that means we are on our way to becoming strong and healthy again. This was not a normal breakup or situation in where the relationship didnt work, this was a situation in where the other person was a psychopath it was set up to fail from day one they all are. Its impossible to have a healthy relationship with someone that cant love; well I suppose its possible – anything is possible but it sure as hell wont be healthy or anything close to normal. xo Linda
You nailed it. It is no wonder that so often the thought crosses our mind….was she with the same p I was with? LOL!
It really is hard at first to wrap your brain around the fact that someone, ANYONE (let alone someone you thought loved you) would purposefully tell you something is white, only to say during the next encounter, no, it is black, we both agreed it is black….JUST to mess with your mind. And not for a joke, but to cause you anxiety.
And if you realize it and call them on it, they’ve won, because they made you angry. And if you don’t realize it, then they’ve won, because they fooled you. They construct the game so that they “win” no matter what the outcome is. Even if they end up in prison, they’ll find a way to make it into a win. They are truly in their own little universe, with them at the center. No one but them will EVER matter in that universe.
It is a universe devoid of love or any real emotional connections and I don’t ever want to visit there again!
For us arrogant humans (US citizens in particular), it is hard to accept there are some things that cannot be fixed, or made better, or salvaged (you are not in that category, the p is!) ; and some things that you will never be able to set the record straight on, some things where justice will not be served, and there are wrongs that will never be righted.
Sometimes you just have to admit that something sucked, the memory of it will always suck, but that the past does not have to define you and what will happen in your future.
Susan, I love your last few lines in particular. There’s a line in my novel, The Seducer, at the end that says about Ana’s affair with the psychopath Michael: “lovers for awhile, enemies for life”. That’s true in the sense that as soon as we realize we were conned by a psychopath–and I realized this long ago, in December 2007, when I broke up with the psychopath for good–you despise not only him, but also every shred of memory of him. The important thing to emphasize (as Susan does), however, is that this total rejection of him and of your past with him doesn’t have to define your present or your future. He’s just a small cockroach; a little blot on your life. To give his role more attention than that is to give the psychopath far more power than he deserves. As a “human” being, he’s a nobody and a nothing, and we all need to keep that in mind. Claudia
Linda,
“It’s a GOOD thing when a psychopath no longer finds you useful because that means we are on our way to becoming strong and healthy again.”.
Excellent point. Taking that further, because I did the dumping, it can also mean that realizing how sick they are, and how you have become around so much pathology and then making the decision to actually get out, means you’re already on the road to healing. Linda, I miss sex in general, but I’d NEVER go back to that again. Ever. There isn’t a thing that could be said or done to change my mind, no matter WHAT state I’m in. I’d rather be alone and I continue to make that choice. For now, that’s the way it has to be. I totally get what you’re saying. Despite my pissing and moaning about the whole ordeal, I KNOW that my decision to put myself first, ahead of his pathology and putting him behind me, learning new boundaries and more about myself, are the ACTIONS that match my words in honoring myself and the healing process and it’s SO MUCH better than living with the stress and anxiety that was required to survive in that relationship. Once the honeymoon is over, surviving is ALL you’re doing. Even though the pain is still there a year later, it really is so much better than it was on the whole. Kel
Hey Kel, I don’t doubt that his suffering was real. I also don’t doubt that he milked it for all it was worth and used it to his full advantage.
Regarding how your ex would hurt you in ways you specifically asked him not to, YEP mine did that too. I know he did it to others as well because of the email I had access to between he and his other victim(s). We all got the “I’m sorry I’m a mean boyfriend.” email during one of our breakups.
You are so right on as well in that they DON’T want you to feel settled. Absolutely NOT. That is presicely why when the better I would get at dealing with the angst the more he’d up the anty on his angst. It’d piss him off even more. As if “How dare you remain calm during my tantrum. Can’t you see me stomping my feet? Don’t you see my face turning red and cheeks puffing out with all this smoke coming out my ears! Look at me woman! I’m having a tantrum! React DAMN IT!!! hahhaaaaa…
I am just so looking forward to the day when a nice normal man walks into my life and illustrates how dumb Dumbass truly is in such a real way. I just can not wait for the day. 😀
Lisa
Clauia, Oh I do not doubt he hurt me intentionally numerous, even countless times. I know this was sort of a turn on for him. I also know in some instances it truly was just that he didn’t care whether he hurt me or not, so it was his carelessness.
The instance like your ex saying “I didn’t hit you that hard!” I’ve heard that trillion times. “Oh I didn’t do it that hard!” “OH that didn’t hurt.” But, barely graze his skin and you’d of thought I took a mashete to him.
Lisa